A Man of Science and Engineering in Troubled Times Wandering in the Late Qing Dynasty

Chapter 565 Tagore

Ramanujan was quite willing to chat with Li Yu. On the one hand, he was very happy that Li Yu was so famous that he was willing to talk to an ordinary student like him; on the other hand, he felt that there was something indescribably mysterious about Li Yu. feel.

The concepts of Indians at this time were also very different from those of later generations.

India was a frequent visitor to short video platforms in Li Yu's era, usually with various jokes, such as "clean and hygienic" and various magical Indian street snacks.

India in the 21st century generally regards China as its imaginary enemy and has a somewhat hostile relationship. Indians also always show an inexplicable confidence, which they probably learned from Europeans.

Chinese culture and the Han cultural circle influenced by China basically regard modesty as a virtue, so the elites of the two countries may have very different views on the same issue.

The preparation took a long time because Li Yu met another Indian celebrity in London - the great poet Rabindranath Tagore.

Together with Li Yu, he won the Nobel Prize in 1913 and was also in London at this time.

Not long ago, Collins Publishing House in London (different from Collins Publishing House in the United States) had just released Tagore's collection of poems "Gitanjali", which instantly caused a sensation in the European literary world and helped him successfully win the Nobel Prize for Literature.

In fact, Tagore himself was of Bengali ethnicity, and most of his works were written in Bengali, including the Nobel Prize-winning "Gitanjali".

But Tagore’s English foundation was also good. After all, it was impossible for the Indian elite to not know English at this time.

Therefore, Tagore himself translated "Gitanjali" into English. Although the language change led to a major change in the format of the poem, fortunately the literary quality was not lost.

The distribution of "Gitanjali" in Europe is very good; and Collins Publishing has now obtained the license to distribute the Star Wars series in Commonwealth countries, intending to bring together two people who are about to win the Nobel Prize to meet in the century.

When The Times learned about it, it tried its best to help, because the news gimmick of this kind of thing is high enough, and Europe is still quite obsessed with Eastern culture.

The publishing house specially organized a room with a very oriental charm: a Chinese painting was hung on the wall, Chinese porcelain and a Ming Dynasty incense burner were placed on the table, but Indian incense was burning inside, and there was also Indian-style embroidery decoration.

Mainly a mess.

Li Yu frowned when he entered the room. It was full of what foreigners "think" is oriental, and the combination was too random and disorderly.

Tagore, who entered the room later, also shook his head, but it was British territory after all, so he could only ignore it and said to Li Yu with a smile: "Hello, Mr. Li Yu! Although this is our first meeting, I already know your name."

Li Yu also smiled and said: "Mr. Tagore, I have admired you for a long time."

Lord Beiyan, the owner of The Times, arranged for reporters and cameramen, and happily said to them: "This year is a grand event. Two Orientals won the Nobel Prize at the same time, which is something that attracts the attention of the whole world! The newspaper and magazine invited you here just to let more people in the world know you, get to know you, and learn from you."

Tagore asked: "Is there any special theme?"

Lord Beiyan said: "Who dares to decide a topic for the two of you? Just a few words between the two of you are worth excerpting in the newspaper."

Li Yu said easily: "Just talk casually."

The two of them sat down at their seats. Li Yu moved his body and said, "This chair looks like it was shipped from China. It is not suitable for this kind of conversation."

Tagore asked: "Why is it inappropriate?"

Li Yu said: "There is a feeling of a leader treating his subordinates."

Tagore smiled and said: "The Indian chair I am sitting on has a similar meaning. It seems that the newspaper accidentally knocked it down, which made us even."

"Do you also think the British don't understand Indian culture?" Li Yu asked.

Tagore said: "Even I don't understand it myself, and I don't think they will understand it. And how can a superior person care enough to understand the culture of a inferior person?"

Li Yu said: "But those in lower positions will understand and learn from those in higher positions. It is destined that the world will change."

"Qiankun?" Tagore said, "I like this Chinese word. I have read your novels, which are very interesting and reflect scientific ideas everywhere."

Li Yu casually complimented: "I have also read your poems. For example, the world kissed me with pain, but I responded with songs."

Tagore immediately asked: "Does Mr. Academician agree with this view?"

Li Yu asked: "Philosophical level?"

Tagore said: "That is your understanding."

"I don't completely agree," Li Yu said. "If it's just a personal suffering, I think we should treat it calmly and work hard to overcome it. There's nothing wrong with that. But if it's a suffering caused by society, I don't agree with accepting it."

"Mr. Academician used sociology to answer the question," Tagore said. "I appreciate your perspective, because this society is a society full of suffering, not only the country where Mr. Academician lives, but also the country where I live."

Li Yu asked: "How do you think the situation can be broken, sir?"

Tagore glanced at the photographers and reporters next to him and said without hesitation: "I think we should learn from European technology and promote scientific and technological knowledge through education."

"This is quite different from the non-violent movements I've heard about recently," Li Yu said.

Tagore said: "I cannot fully accept Mr. Gandhi's revolutionary ideas, because the essence of non-violent thought is to have illusions about the superior."

Li Yu said: "Do you think this fantasy is unrealistic?"

Tagore said: "Very unrealistic!"

Tagore had great differences with Gandhi in terms of revolutionary thought, and Gandhi was relatively more conservative; their differences would become larger and larger in the future, eventually leading to a complete separation between Tagore and the Congress Party.

Tagore continued: "Although your country has repeatedly failed in its foreign wars, I do not think it is wrong. I sympathize with China and love your country. Your struggle is correct and has a happy ending. "

I don’t know if the first half of the sentence is a joke, but obviously the second half is Tagore’s original intention.

It's just not the end yet.

Li Yu said: "Thank you sir for your recognition and welcome you to China."

Tagore said: "Thank you sir for your invitation."

Both of them are figures with great say in their country's cultural circles. In fact, the British still prefer Gandhi's way, so Lord Beiyan coughed: "You two, don't you want to talk about truth and the universe?"

Tagore made a gesture of spreading his hands, and then said to Li Yu: "Mr. Academician has made great achievements in science. I would like to know, do you believe in God? I don't mean God in the traditional sense."

Indians seem to particularly like asking this question.

Li Yu said: "I don't believe in personal gods."

Tagore nodded: "It is a very profound statement. Although it is short, it is worth pondering at the philosophical level." Li Yu asked: "Sir, do you believe in God?"

Tagore said: "I believe in God. But like you, I do not believe in personal God."

Li Yu smiled and said: "Then we have some consensus again."

Tagore said: "Based on this consensus, I would like to ask you another question: Does exploring the truth of the universe necessarily rely on mathematics and other sciences?"

Li Yu said: "If you are referring to the universe in the material world, you can only use scientific methods. This is the only way."

Tagore said: "Can't human thinking be done?"

Li Yu shook his head resolutely: "It is impossible to rely entirely on thinking. What is needed to explore the world is evidence, just like my previous article on falsification."

Tagore said: "But two thousand years ago, Democritus said that the world is composed of atoms. He did not have modern scientific instruments, but he made a correct judgment. Isn't this the greatness of human thinking?"

"First of all, I admit that it is indeed great," Li Yu said, "but what is great is his way of thinking, not just a conclusion."

Tagore said "Oh?". Hearing this statement for the first time, he was surprised and asked: "How to explain?"

Li Yu said: "For example, you can easily know that a piece of bread can turn into bread crumbs, and then continue to turn into fine crumbs. If it is hit with a stone, it can become even smaller. The same is true for all other objects. Through this By using this induction method, I can deduce that the object is most likely to have a smallest unit. In essence, this way of thinking is still a scientific way."

Tagore said: "Induction? Mathematics?"

"Yes," Li Yu said, "Mathematics is the queen of science, and mathematical theories can be used in any field."

Tagore thought for a moment and then said: "So philosophy is really inseparable from science?"

Li Yu said: "It seems that every philosopher knows certain scientific knowledge or logical knowledge, and logic itself is inseparable from mathematics."

Tagore's thoughts were a little distracted, so he asked a question first: "Sir, he said that mathematics can be used in any field, does it also include the most mysterious human body?"

Li Yu said: "Of course, mathematics can also perform quantitative analysis on some seemingly vague things, including the most important way for people to perceive the world - vision. I just happened to ask my husband a question, why can the human eye see Can you see things that are very far away and things that are very close?”

Tagore said: "Does this need an explanation?"

Li Yu said: "This contains a very basic mathematical principle, that is, the logarithmic decline opposite to the exponential explosion. The human eye can respond to strong light indoors and can also see the flickering candlelight thousands of meters away. , or even distant galaxies tens of thousands of light-years away. If it is a conventionally understood linear relationship, I am afraid that the human eye needs to be as big as a fly sometimes, and sometimes as big as a washbasin."

Tagore smiled and said: "What an interesting metaphor. But in any case, any knowledge is not inseparable from human thinking. Without people themselves, any knowledge in this world will be meaningless."

Li Yu said: "Human beings are products of nature. Without people, there would be no impact on the universe."

"No!" Tagore couldn't accept this. "Talent is the most important thing. Without people, everything is nothingness."

Li Yu said: "Millions of years ago, there were no humans in the world, and the world was still functioning."

Tagore said: "But such a world has no meaning."

Li Yu said: "It just doesn't make sense to humans."

Tagore said: "It is really meaningless as sir said."

Li Yu said: "Science does not exist based on human beings."

Tagore suddenly said: "Perhaps, there are aliens? People on earth do not exist. What if there are humans on Mars? Only places with civilization can have the meaning of the world."

Li Yu said with a smile: "Mr. Tagore has indeed read the book Star Wars."

Tagore said, "Yes, after the session, I will bring out a set of books for you to sign."

Li Yu said: "Me too."

Tagore said: "Then please answer the question just now."

Li Yu said: "The existence of aliens is still a controversial topic in science. There may be some, but the possibility of finding them may be zero. Even if extraterrestrial civilizations exist and they want to explore the truth of the universe, We must use scientific methods, using telescopes, spectral analysis, and atomic physics."

Tagore said: "And isn't all this still based on human consciousness?"

Li Yu said: "Conscious determinism and materialistic views should not be debated in science, because this will only lead to other people's opinions. I will not directly say that people who hold idealistic views must be wrong, but idealistic views must be put aside. It is a fact that we should not compete with materialism for first place. Acknowledge materialism as the basic premise, and then, it is our freedom to explore the world through spiritualism."

Tagore said: "But human existence itself is also an essential issue, and it is meaningless to talk about other things apart from human beings. For example, if there is no human existence, there will be no you and no me; without you and me, there will be no this dialogue; there will be no this dialogue. , everything just now was nothingness.”

Li Yu said: "That is a religious issue, not a truth issue."

Tagore said: "This is not only religion, it is philosophy, and it is also truth."

Li Yu smiled and said: "Maybe, but at least it's not my philosophy. Moreover, I think I am very religious about my philosophy."

Tagore said: "Piety is a good thing."

Li Yu finally understood why even Einstein could not compare to Tagore in later generations.

It is a pity that in this era, many opinions cannot be easily thrown out. Even very basic things such as protons and neutrons have not been discovered. Science itself is also developing at a rapid speed, and the origin of the world has not been clearly understood.

But in a few decades, everyone will be able to judge who is right and who is wrong.

Sir Beiyan clapped his hands and said: "Wonderful debate, I think neither of them lost. I will publish their conversation in the newspaper on the eve of the two receiving the Nobel Prize. It will definitely become the focus of the world's attention."

Li Yu thought it didn't matter, that was the news media's own business, so he said: "The title must not be too bizarre."

Then he said to Tagore: "When you have time, you must go to China. There are people there who really study philosophy and are good at literature."

"I will definitely go to China," Tagore said, "but I think you have convinced me of your philosophy."

Li Yu smiled and said: "Don't say this in China, I can't stand it."

Tagore wondered: "Isn't it?"

Li Yu said: "It's not even close!"

Li Yu still has a good sense of proportion. You can say that I am proficient in science, but I cannot be said to be proficient in philosophy...

(End of this chapter)