Jack Ma: The future has come

Chapter 26 Dialogue with the World (3)
Moderator: What kind of evaluation does Mr. Ma Yun have on artificial intelligence?
Ma Yun: I agree with what Xiao Zha said, innovation is to use unique and efficient methods to solve problems.I'm not an engineer myself, nor a tech guy, and like most people, I'm a little scared of technology, but I believe we need to use technology to solve problems.Many people are very worried, saying that machines have defeated humans, so what should humans do?I think that from the first day when computers were invented, human beings should realize that if human beings want to compete with computers for being smarter, then human beings should give up.I think machines will become more and more powerful, machines will be better at computing than humans, but machines will never be as intelligent as humans.

For example, playing chess, I am not good at Go, but I like to play it.The fun thing about playing chess is that you can watch your opponent make mistakes, and when you see your opponent make mistakes, even if you lose, you feel happy.But if you play against a machine, the machine never makes a mistake, so it's not fun at all.If you boxed against a machine, you couldn't beat it. More than 200 years ago, machines were invented in Europe, and everyone should realize that machines will definitely be stronger than humans in the future. More than 100 years ago, people should have realized that airplanes and cars would definitely run faster than people.Now that computers come, we should realize that computers must remember better than us, calculate faster, and don't need to rest.

Therefore, humans should give up.However, one thing is certain: humans have intelligence and hearts.Machines can never enjoy success and failure, and machines have no feeling for friendship and love.So I think we should not be afraid of machines, we should use machines to solve problems as an innovative and efficient way to solve human problems, to deal with climate change, disease and poverty.

Zuckerberg: I ​​agree with most of Jack Ma's views.We have seen a new milestone in artificial intelligence, and we believe that Google's AlphaGo has indeed made a major achievement in terms of technology.I recently attended an artificial intelligence conference where it was said that by taking pictures of some scars on our skin, a computer could, like the best dermatologist in the world, tell if a person has cancer or not.This is a kind of pattern recognition.In other words, artificial intelligence can recognize some visual, auditory, tactile, and different languages.We should continue to advance this cutting-edge research.

Jack Ma: I think the difference between the two of us is that one is an engineer and the other is a non-engineer.Engineers are excited about technology itself, and I am excited about how technology can make our lives easier.I'm excited about artificial intelligence, however, I'm not excited about technology.

Virtual reality: 2016 is the first year of consumer VR
Moderator: There is a chemical reaction between engineers and technology.We just talked about artificial intelligence, and now there are two hot words, VR[20] and AR[21], that is, virtual reality and augmented reality, they are related, can you explain to us the difference between the two? Relationship?How do you see the future evolution of these two technologies?

Zuckerberg: I ​​hope that in 10 to 15 years, the myopia glasses you wear will allow you to have a fully immersive experience. It can provide information, perceive the surrounding situation, let you see a certain scene, and let you Go plan your life and schedule.Recently, we made a demonstration in the company, using a mobile phone to play table tennis with other people. In fact, the other person is in another office, but the operator feels that they are playing face to face.This technology can change the way we entertain and educate. It can create a simulated environment for us to entertain and learn. It will be very powerful.In the next few years, what I can foresee is that VR will be applied in the field of games first.There are about 2.5 million people who play some immersive games on X-box or PS.I personally like playing games very much. There are many game lovers around me. They can play space games, fighting games or competitive games immersively in the future instead of watching 2D images.

Moderator: Will 2016 be the year of VR?You're competing with the Google Glass project, aren't you?
Zuckerberg: 2016 is the year when consumer-grade VR started to take off.Last year we jointly released a product with Samsung, and this year we will release a new generation product called Oculus Rift[22], which is embedded with a chip with very strong computing power, which can simulate the surrounding environment well.It's hard for me to describe this feeling, you need to try it yourself before you can experience it.

Moderator: Ma Yun, can you help Xiaozha sell such products on the Alibaba platform?
Jack Ma: No problem!I don’t understand a lot of technical content that Xiao Zha just said, but my team told me a lot about the development of VR and AR.Just like when I started an Internet company in 1994, I knew nothing about the Internet, but what I thought was how to help people do things more simply.So, when I hear about VR and AR, what I think about is how to help women and children to shop online more conveniently and quickly, how to use these new technologies to promote sales, and make users have a better shopping experience.We will make it happen.

Moderator: Now let's talk about technology and the impact of technology.I would like to ask Xiao Zha, what do you think is the biggest surprise in terms of technology in the past few years?That said, what are your favorite innovations?For you personally, where is technology changing the world the most and the fastest?
ZUCKERBERG: We've already talked about AlphaGo beating the Go master, which was something that surprised me in 2016.Previously, experts thought it would take a few years before artificial intelligence could truly defeat the human brain.This shows that the speed of research and development of artificial intelligence is very gratifying.I hope we can develop more applications of artificial intelligence, and other more interesting applications.For example, I think of self-driving cars, which can help us save time and reduce accidents.In Ma Yun's words, machines don't need to sleep, and they can remember better, so machines driving cars will be safer than people driving.From the perspective of public safety, I am concerned about autonomous driving technology. Of course, this technology still needs to improve the system.

In the field of health, too, there are many things that can be facilitated by artificial intelligence.For example, with the improvement of the accuracy of disease diagnosis, artificial intelligence can be used to analyze the genes, signs and symptoms of each person, so as to achieve early diagnosis and earlier and more effective treatment.

Moderator: I would like to ask Jack Ma, what do you think of technology and its impact on the world?
Ma Yun: I think the difference between academics and entrepreneurs is that academics always look forward to big changes, while entrepreneurs look forward to small changes.In our company, we spend our time on small, interesting innovations, solving small problems.Only by solving small problems can we solve big problems.Two months ago, I visited a basketball league.People in the league told me that the first person to invent basketball had to climb a ladder to take the ball out of the basket after each shot, and it took two to three hours for a game. After 20 years, it occurred to people that the bottom of the hoop could be cut off so that the ball could just fall straight down.Such a small innovation took 20 years, and a big innovation may take hundreds of years.

We are lucky to live in the best of times.Speaking of the impact of innovation, I think in the next three to 40 years, there will be a huge breakthrough in life science and technology, which will make people live longer.This is thanks to calculations and data.In the past 300 years, science has developed rapidly, and people have become more and more comprehensive in their understanding of the world outside the earth and space. Today we have a basic understanding of what Mars is like, but human beings have not improved much in their understanding of themselves.Once there is new computing power and human behavior data, in the next three to 40 years, human beings will be able to better understand themselves and help themselves.I hope that a hundred years from now, when human beings can understand the mystery of longevity, a law will have to be introduced to limit human beings from living beyond 200 years old.My expectation for life science is: how to make human beings healthier, happier and live longer.

Knowledge makes people smart, and smart people know what they need; experiencing setbacks makes people wiser, and wise people know when to give up.From the IT era to the DT era, IT makes people more like machines, and DT makes machines more like people.We've entered a new world and we have to let go of something wisely over the next 30 years or we'll be in trouble.

Cultural Differences Between China and the West: Wisdom and Knowledge

Moderator: Artificial intelligence and life science are the two frontiers of future technology.Now let's talk about culture. Both of you are cross-cultural representatives-familiar with Chinese and American cultures.What do you think about culture from a business and innovation standpoint?
Ma Yun: I think Western culture and Eastern culture are both very interesting and unique cultures.For the past 100 years, China and the West have been discussing and debating our differences.I have a good friend in the United States who said he is very worried about China.I asked, why are you worried?He said, because in 20 years, China's GDP will surpass that of the United States, and it will be stronger than the United States. At that time, you will control the world just like the Americans.I said, why do you think so?"That's what we think," he said.

This is the American concept of competition that I know. We must always establish a competitor and know what the opponent is doing.

But in China, what we pay attention to is harmony. How do we change ourselves to adapt to the outside world?Taoism says how to change ourselves to integrate with the environment; Confucianism says how to change ourselves to achieve harmony with society; Buddhism says how to change our behavior so that we can integrate with our hearts.Eastern cultures are not particularly competitive.This is a huge difference between Eastern and Western cultures.

For example, in Chinese football, among the 13 billion Chinese, there are no 11 players who can play football well. The problem lies in our different cultures.We have strong individual sports and not so strong team sports.We're also not very good at competitive confrontation.In the United States, when a child comes home from school, parents will ask if the child has asked the teacher some sharp questions, while Chinese parents will ask if the child has fought or quarreled with others, and if he has listened to the teacher.Our educational concept is to teach our children how to be a good child.Movies are no different.I like watching American movies very much. The hero looks like a bad guy at first, but when disaster happens, he becomes a good guy. No matter how much he is beaten and abused, he will not die.But in Chinese movies, only the dead can become heroes.So, we are two completely different cultures.

In China, we pay more attention to wisdom.Hundreds of years ago, both Easterners and Westerners depended on philosophy and religion.With the progress of the times, everything is related to knowledge, and people began to focus more on knowledge.I think the West is the representative of knowledge, while the East is the representative of wisdom.Who will win the Eastern and Western cultures?In my opinion, the person who can combine Eastern and Western cultures will win.

Moderator: Xiao Zha, tell us about cultural differences.

Zuckerberg: I ​​am particularly optimistic about China: China is very concerned about technology.Across the globe, more jobs in the future are likely to require skilled workers.Generally speaking, the global technical talents and engineers are limited, and all countries in the world hope to train engineers.China has always placed great emphasis on science and engineering education. For example, many government officials are engineers with science and engineering backgrounds. They use engineering thinking when solving problems and have received very strict academic training.

I think this will be an advantage for China, and I hope other countries can learn from China's emphasis on science and engineering.Maybe it's because I'm a technical person myself, so I pay more attention to technology, and I'm not very good at culture.I have no way to think so philosophically like Mr. Jack Ma.

Ma Yun: I don't understand technology, I can only spend time thinking about philosophy.In terms of technology, I respect Xiao Zha very much. He respects oriental culture. He does not learn Chinese for making money, but instinctively likes Chinese culture.I also found a big difference between Chinese and Westerners, that is, Chinese people are very cautious about spending money to buy things for themselves, but they are very passionate and generous when investing in the stock market.The United States is just the opposite. Americans are very cautious when investing, but they are very willing to spend money to buy things for themselves.

Also, Americans know very little about China, but the Chinese have been trying to understand America.Find 100 young people randomly on the streets of China, and at least 80 of them can speak some English.If you go to the United States and randomly find 100 people on the street, there may be at most three or five people who can speak a little Chinese.

We very much want to learn from the United States in order to change ourselves.This is a very unique and interesting place for us Chinese.Observing people who are different from you with appreciation and respect, and then learning from them, will make the world a better place.

Entrepreneurship: Working for a Mission
Moderator: Although the two of you speak very differently, you have one thing in common, that is, you are both entrepreneurs.Xiao Zha dropped out of school to start a business, and Ma Yun first became a teacher and then started his own business.Do you have any advice for young people who want to start a business?

Zuckerberg: Entrepreneurs should focus on what problems they can solve, not how to start a company.I think there's a really weird culture in Silicon Valley—people think it's cool to start a company.A lot of people say I want to start a company, and they don't even know what problem they want to solve to start a company.I think it's pretty crazy.How can you build a good company like that?For me, the ultimate goal of running a company is to achieve a long-term mission, whether it's solving a specific problem, serving a minority, or changing the world.Only with such a mission can a company be built.If you can really create something that others like to use, you will have partners, you can recruit employees, and you can further promote the product to the world.

Many people ask me, what should I do if I want to set up a company?I would tell them, first think about what you want to do and what problem you want to solve.After you think it over, start a company, not the other way around.

Ma Yun: I also often meet many people who tell me that they want to set up a company. I agree with what Xiao Zha said. You must first be sure that you have a mission and you have to solve the problem.You can't see other people starting a business, and you should start a business too.Your motivation to start a business should not come from making money by doing it. Your motivation to start a business should be to do this even if you sell your house or give up everything.If you have such a belief, then do it!
I don't have any technical training, I was originally a teacher.The quality of a teacher is to hope that students are better than themselves and able to surpass themselves; the product of teachers is students.I am the chief education officer of Ali now, and I hope that employees will do better than me in the future, and this is how I manage the company.In my opinion, the Internet is a tool that can improve people's lives, not make money for themselves.I believe that people should have a mission to solve problems.

Someone wants to join our company and says: Jack Ma, I want to work for you.I said you don't work for me, I work for the mission, if you work for the mission, then we can solve many problems; if you work for me, then you will definitely not have a good future.Because I think one way today and another way tomorrow, but my mission remains the same.It will be successful if there is a group of people who believe in this mission, in our shared dream, rather than a group of people who believe in you.

Education for the Next Generation: Curiosity Leads to a Better Future
Moderator: Xiao Zha, congratulations on the birth of your daughter.What would you like to teach your daughter about innovation?I saw a picture of you holding your daughter reading a book called Quantum Physics for Babies.Is this something she should learn?
(End of this chapter)