Jack Ma: The future has come

Chapter 28 Dialogue with the World (5)
Alibaba may have made some contributions to social progress, but in terms of academic support, we have not done too much. We will invest more in this area in the future, including support for academic discussions, school education, etc. put in.Of course, sometimes academics are very macroscopic, and we are very confused. Just like the speeches of Nobel Prize winners in economics, I can't understand a word.Although I can understand the speeches of many domestic economists, their views are not necessarily correct.It is a bit tiring to develop if the content that is too academic is applied to the enterprise at once, but we can take our time and I will listen to your suggestions.

In China, the opportunity to do mobile Internet is greater than that of PC Internet
Question: I have been working on mobile Internet for more than 10 years, and I have been in business for 5 years. My question is related to mobile Internet.I saw that you are working on Alibaba Cloud recently. What are your strategic considerations?
Jack Ma: Wireless is the biggest challenge for the PC Internet, and it is also the biggest support for the Internet.Many people have entered the mobile Internet era before they figured out what the PC Internet is all about.The mobile Internet must be in a different direction.Those of us who look at the Internet look at traditional industries from the perspective of the Internet, while wireless Internet practitioners look at the Internet from a wireless perspective. This is a huge challenge for all Internet companies around the world.Whoever changes himself first will be able to take the initiative.

In China, the opportunity to do mobile Internet is even greater than that of PC Internet.China's third- and fourth-tier cities and rural areas have leapfrogged the PC era and directly entered the mobile Internet era. Everyone has a mobile phone, and mobile phones have replaced PCs.Personally, I think mobile phones will become data consumers in the future, and it will really change our way of life.In fact, three or four years ago, we had discussions and deployments within our company. We did a lot of work on the OS (Operating System, operating system) and data.China's wireless Internet applications are not very rich, but there are some that do well, such as WeChat.At the application level, I believe we will have more and better applications.Ali hopes to invest more in data and computing.We hope to build a platform, just like Taobao, we do not sell goods ourselves, but only help those who have applications to sell goods.Therefore, today we have a lot of investment in the OS and data level, and in the platform to help those who want more data and technical support.

Question: After May 5, if you see a big pit in front of Alibaba, you think Ali may not be able to cross it, but your next CEO thinks it can, will you remind him or even pull him back? ?

Jack Ma: After May 5, there will be a pit in front of you. If you want to jump, just jump.The military power is already in the hands of others.Trust, what is trust, what is responsibility?Trust and trust are two concepts. In the past, it was said that "employees should not be suspicious, and doubtful people should not be used".Trust is the combination of these two sentences.I trust the next CEO, I can't get over it, maybe he can get over it.Someone told me that wireless is hopeless because the characters are too small.I said, you look small, but young people look big.Young people are better than us, you worry about things, you will fall to your death, young people will not fall to your death.

eBay wasn't run by us

Question: Hello, Mr. Ma, I have watched a documentary "Crocodile in the Yangtze River", which tells the story of you leading Taobao to drive eBay out of China.It has been almost 10 years since this incident, and we look back at the fierce battle 10 years ago. What do you think is the secret of Taobao driving eBay out of China?
Jack Ma: We didn't kill eBay, it's their own strategy.In that "fierce battle", at first we didn't know how big the opponent was. We put together a total of more than 3000 million yuan, and eBay probably brought in more than 800 billion US dollars.It's not a hard fight, it's a close fight, and we can't fight eBay at all.We are more relentless than Don Quixote, we turn fighting into a kind of fun. eBay wasn't defeated, it was later freaked out.

At that time, we made a judgment that there will be 1.8 million Internet users in China in the future, so e-commerce requires a long-term strategy. If eBay loses, you can leave China, if Jack Ma loses, you will be homeless, so we must win.It is very difficult to run a multinational and cross-cultural enterprise, and it must be accumulated.Giving up is the easiest, and we may pass out after another two or three years.Therefore, our luck is very good, eBay suddenly announced its withdrawal from China and stopped fighting.Of course, Yahoo also helped us a lot by investing us $10 billion, otherwise we would have played endlessly.Many people think that fighting is based on money, but it is not, it is based on innovation.To this day, when Ali does anything, he always thinks about a question: Will he be successful in 5 years, and will he be successful in 10 years?If we can succeed in 5 or 10 years, we will do it; if it is something that can be successful tomorrow, then we will definitely not do it.

At that time, I said, we are alligators in the Yangtze River. Alligators are not big, but eBay is a shark in the sea. As long as we fight in the Yangtze River, we have a chance.Those words were just a boost of morale.Therefore, until today, we have not dared to fight them in the sea.Today, ants can overturn elephants if they find a good way.As long as you know how, there is still a chance.Don't look at how much money the other party has, don't look at the size of the other party's company. It is often the small business that kills a big company; None of them are opponents.

Alibaba's selection and employment standards

Question: Based on your experience, what do you think should be the criteria for selecting and employing people in the early and middle stages of entrepreneurship?
Ma Yun: What is the difference between the culture in the early stage of entrepreneurship and the culture in the later stage of entrepreneurship?I tell everyone, there is no difference.Always look for someone who is particularly interested in something, not someone who understands best, especially when doing something that no one has done before, you should find someone who is good at it and willing to learn, not someone who knows best. People who understand this aspect.Just like China today, there are so many Internet experts and analysts, especially e-commerce.Who are the experts?Who is an analyst?This industry has only been born for a few years, and now there are experts?We are a bit different from Google. Google likes the best talent in the world. I don't think there is a first-class talent in the world.Alibaba likes ordinary people and thinks he is an ordinary person who is willing to learn. This is the talent we need.Because what we are doing is something that no one has done before, let's learn together and work hard together.

Always remember to find the right person for you, not the best person.We have all made this mistake. When we have money, we immediately find some top-notch people from such and such a big company, and it will basically end.A tractor is equipped with a Boeing 747 engine. Once the tractor is started, the whole thing will be finished.We hope to find honest men in private enterprises and rebels in multinational corporations.Multinational companies are all about procedures, and I want to find the rebels among them; private companies are relatively wild, and I want to find the gentlemen among them.

Entrepreneurship principle: do what you are happiest, start with the easiest

Question: One of the competitiveness of a company is its corporate culture. Alibaba's corporate culture is still different from that of ordinary American companies.With a team of more than a dozen people, you have achieved the current take-off. What do you think is the main reason?
Ma Yun: Alibaba did not succeed, but we are still alive.Who in the world can guarantee that they are successful today?In the Internet industry in the past, no one was in awe of Yahoo, but isn't Yahoo what it is today?No one can predict the changes in this world.We just made some decisions that we thought were right at the right time.Ali has his own mission and values, without these two things, everything else is empty.Everything we do has a clear purpose.You can ask Ali's employees, they all know what they are doing, which is to make the world easy to do business.

Many people criticize us: You say that it is easy to do business in the world, but we are not doing well on Ali's platform!I want to say that these are two concepts. I cannot make you live well, and neither can God.Can God make everyone in the world equally rich?impossible.We just do our best around our mission.So far, what has touched me the most is that we have been sticking to these principles and bottom lines, even in the most painful times, we still have a sense of happiness.

Question: Will Alibaba IPO in the future?If so, what is your timeline?
Ma Yun: IPO is not so attractive to us.Alibaba has been listed in Hong Kong before. If the listing is marriage and the delisting is divorce, then we have been married and divorced.We know what a wedding is, and it takes time to have a wedding.So, today we don't care when the wedding is going to happen.What we care about is how beautiful our marriage can be, how long it can last, and how much happiness it can bring to ourselves and others. We need to spend more time on this aspect.As for the wedding ceremony, it is the same wherever it is held.Only in this way can this company go for a long time; only in this way can this company live meaningfully.

Many people like to complain, saying that this is not good, and that is not good.Let me tell you, I never complain about anyone, it is meaningless to complain about others, I only complain about myself.Everyone here, you have no worries about food and clothing in this life, why don't you change yourself, try it, go to China, go to other companies, and do what you want to do?An old man once told me that when a person dies, he will definitely regret what he has not done in his life, and he will never regret what he has done.

You too.You don't all have to come to Alibaba, but I will be very happy if you do.As long as you actively participate in things that contribute to social progress, as long as you participate in changing your life, it is worth working hard to do.As I said just now, always find the person who likes the job the most and enjoys it.In addition, always find what you are happiest to do.Therefore, there are two principles of entrepreneurship: do what you are happiest, and start with the easiest.

6. Yabuli Dialogue with Business Elites

Background tips:

On February 2016, 2, Jack Ma was invited to attend the Yabuli China Entrepreneur Forum held in Heilongjiang and gave a special speech.

Judging whether the economy is good or bad has little to do with GDP
Jack Ma: Good morning!A lot of people go skiing, I don't.The first time I learned to ski was in Yabuli. After I finished skiing, I went to Switzerland.Because I learned how to ski in Yabuli, I think I can go skiing in Switzerland.In Switzerland, I took the 15-minute cable car up to the top of the mountain, and when I came down, I freaked out.I didn't know that I could climb that high in 15 minutes. The slope of the mountain is very steep, and all the ski trails can't be found at all, so I dare not ski at all.It took me nearly two and a half hours to walk down.

Sometimes we think we know a lot, we think we know, and if we don't have a sense of awe for the future and gratitude for yesterday, then we may stumble and stumble forever.

Today, various enterprises may encounter difficulties.I have the difficulties that most people have, and I have more difficulties and more troubles. I believe that many of the difficulties I have encountered may not be encountered by many companies here.But what to do?If you choose to be an enterprise, Alibaba, the Internet, and a group of young people to do this together, you can only persevere.

Ali has many problems to face today.At that time, Wang Shi went out to climb the mountain. I asked him why he went to climb the mountain. He said that he could think clearly when he climbed to the top of the mountain.I can think clearly while sitting on the toilet. I am climbing mountains and snow-capped mountains every day.All entrepreneurs are thinking every day how to get over the snow-capped mountains, how to get over this hurdle and that hurdle.We must see clearly the disasters in the future. Only those who see disasters and difficulties clearly, and know that there are disasters and difficulties, are qualified to be optimistic.If you don't know where the future disaster is, your optimism must be blind.

Today's economic situation is not good for anyone, which is actually a good thing.If it is not good for you, then your disaster will be great.What's more, whether the economy is good or bad doesn't really have much to do with you.Which country has no economic problems?There are problems.After so many years of transformation and upgrading, it has been said that China's economy is unsustainable for so many years. When we face economic problems, panic is more destructive than economic downturn.The outbreak of the financial crisis is actually like a tsunami. Today it is in the United States, and it may reach China in the future. This is a process.

Everyone is calling for transformation and upgrading, but we don't know how much the cost of transformation and upgrading will be; and we are not ready for how to do it.From today's point of view, the decline of the entire economy supported by energy, oil, and resources has become a certainty.

Judging whether the economy is good or bad, in fact, it has little to do with GDP.To judge whether a country's economy is healthy and hopeful, it depends on whether employment is stable and whether young people have job opportunities.If young people lack employment opportunities, even if the GDP is high, the economy will not work.If there is a problem with young people's employment, it will be a disaster for everyone.

China now has three new economic growth points, the three new growth points are consumption, service and high technology.This is China's new "troika".If the traditional infrastructure investment, export, and domestic demand are called the troika, then consumption, service, and high technology are the three Mercedes-Benz cars.

First, investment in infrastructure. Over the past 30 years, we have invested so much money, should we change from infrastructure investment to infrastructure application?We have invested in so many devices, but the difference in application capabilities is beyond everyone's imagination.If the country opens decades of investment to private enterprises, then the operation must be professional and must be handed over to the market for operation.Therefore, this is a huge opportunity. We need to revitalize our own assets and do a good job of what this country has invested in before.Second, an export-oriented economy cannot be sustained, and a balanced development of imports and exports is necessary.China has become the world's largest seller's market, and it must also become the world's largest buyer's market.I think we must learn to buy, learn to buy things from other countries into China, and accelerate China's transformation and upgrading.China is not overcapacity, but outdated overcapacity and insufficient high-value production capacity; China does not know how to produce toilets, but does not know how to produce good toilets and creative toilets, so we must consider the balanced development of imports and exports.

What is domestic demand?Domestic demand is consumption.Why can't consumption be done, and domestic demand can't be done well?Because investment and export are government-oriented, while consumption is market-oriented and enterprise-oriented.The government has the ability to invest in infrastructure, and the government can use various methods to stimulate exports, but it is difficult for the government to do something with the money in the pockets of ordinary people.Therefore, it is the innovation of entrepreneurs and the behavior of the market to take money out of the pockets of ordinary people.

What is consumption?The "consumption" of consumption is something that can be consumed, and "fee" is something that can be wasted.We used to think that cars and houses are domestic needs, but cars and houses may only be bought once or twice in a lifetime. The contents of cars and houses can be consumed every day. Hanging a Picasso painting on the wall is a waste.Only when consumption rises can China's economy rise.Therefore, to stimulate consumption is to engage in innovation and engage in market behavior.There are so many things that China can do, and enterprises have only one problem in the process of being confused: your imagination is not enough.

(End of this chapter)