Jack Ma: The future has come

Chapter 30 Dialogue with the World (7)
The second question, if you are in China today, I would like to drink tea with Deng Xiaoping.He is very courageous and brave to reform. His decision-making ability and indomitable action ability are all worthy of my study.

7. Davos in conversation with Charlie Rose

Background tips:

On January 2015, 1, at the Davos Summit in Switzerland, the famous American host Charlie Rose had a dialogue with Jack Ma.Within seconds of booking tickets, all the seats were sold out. The audience was all business leaders from all over the world, and many executives had to stand and listen to the entire venue.Faced with CBS (CBS) celebrity Charlie Rose, Jack Ma talked about business philosophy, personal stories and the future of Alibaba.

Why return to Davos?

Charlie Rose: When Alibaba completed the largest IPO in the world, we all knew a lot of stories about Jack Ma.Here, I would like to talk about Ma Yun's personal story first.He has tried so many times and failed so many times. I would like to talk about what brought him to today, how he will develop in the future, and how to achieve his future goals.If he achieves his goal, what does it mean for the world and for the people he wants to influence?We start with this question: why did you come back to Davos?

Jack Ma: Seven years is a long time.I remember that the last time I came to Davos was in 7. At that time, I came to participate in the Young Global Leaders Forum. I had never heard of Davos before.When I came to Switzerland, I saw many young people demonstrating.I asked what are they doing?Against globalization, they say.I'm curious, why are you against globalization?Globalization is a good thing.

During the two-hour journey, there were many security checks along the way, and there were military police with live ammunition.I was like, is this going to a forum?

However, at the Young Global Leaders Forum, I was excited to hear so many new ideas.I learned a lot, what is globalization, what is corporate citizenship, what is social responsibility... A lot of great leaders are talking about what leadership is, and I see a lot of young people talking about it.

When the economic crisis hit in 2008, I thought I'd better go back to work.Because you can never win the world with words, you have to do it, so I went back to work for 7 years.Now, I feel it's time to give something back.I benefited from the forum back then, and today I want to share my story with more young leaders and tell them what we have experienced.

Charlie Rose: Alibaba is big, so how big is Alibaba now?

Ma Yun: More than 1 million users visit our website every day, and we have directly or indirectly created 1400 million job opportunities.From 18 people in my apartment to 3 people, we have a headquarters in Hangzhou.Compared with 15 years ago, Ali is very big now, but compared with 15 years later, Ali is still a baby now.

In 15 years we went from nothing to where we are today. After 15 years, I hope that everyone will not see Alibaba or Taobao, because it is already everywhere, and everyone regards Taobao as part of their lives.I hope that in 15 years, people forget about e-commerce, just like electricity, no one thinks it is a high technology.I don't want 15 years from now, we'll be walking down the road talking about how e-commerce can help people.

Charlie Rose: Let's talk about the IPO, have you seen the anticipation?
Ma Yun: Yes, this is a very big IPO, 250 billion US dollars.I remember in 2001, I came to the United States to raise $300 million and was rejected by 30 VCs, so now I come back a little more.

The more we think about the $250 billion in financing, the more we are reminded of how to spend money efficiently.This is not money, but trust from all over the world. These people hope that you can help more people better, and they hope to have a better return.

This puts more pressure on me.Alibaba may be the top 10 or top 15 companies in the world by market capitalization.I asked my team, are we really that good?We're not that good.Years ago, people said that Alibaba's business model is terrible, it doesn't make money, and there is no such model in the United States.People say we have this and that, Amazon is better, eBay is better, Google is better.I told my team that we are better than everyone thinks.And today, I told my team that we are not as good as people think.We are a 15-year-old company with an average age of 27-28 employees, and we are doing something that no one has done in human history.

What does it feel like to be rejected all the time?

Charlie Rose: You were born in Hangzhou and founded your company in Hangzhou. Where is your company headquarters now?

Ma Yun: Yes, if you start a business here, you will put your roots here.

Charlie Rose: You were born in the 20s, during the "Cultural Revolution".

Jack Ma: I was born in 1964.My grandfather was a small landowner and was considered a bad person after liberation, so I knew how hard it was when I was a child.

Charlie Rose: You tried college three times and they rejected you each time?

Ma Yun: I failed the college entrance examination three times.I failed many times. I failed the key primary school twice and the middle school twice.It's hard for you to imagine that in Hangzhou, the primary school I went to only existed for one year before it became a middle school, because our school's graduates were so poor that no school wanted it, so we upgraded ourselves to a middle school .

Charlie Rose: What's it like to be rejected?
Ma Yun: We have to learn to adapt to being rejected. We are not so good, and there are still many people rejecting us to this day.

I remember I applied for jobs and failed 30 times.I went to apply to be a police officer. A total of 5 people applied, 4 people passed, and I was the only one who failed. When KFC came to China, 24 people applied for jobs, 23 people got it, and only 1 person was not accepted, and that was me.I applied to Harvard 10 times and got rejected.I told myself that maybe one day I could teach there.

Charlie Rose: When Nixon visited Hangzhou, many tourists came to Hangzhou. When did you start learning English?
Ma Yun: Yes, when I was twelve or thirteen years old, I suddenly fell in love with English.At that time, there was no place to learn English, no books, so I went to the door of the hotel to find foreigners to learn English. For 9 years, I went there every day as a free tour guide for foreigners and let them teach me English.This experience changed me.I am completely "Made in China" and have not received a day's education abroad.Someone asked me, why is your English so good that you can think like a Westerner?I think these foreign tourists opened my eyes, those 9 years taught me to think independently, when someone tells you something, you have to think.

Charlie Rose: At that time, Jack Ma started to become Jack Ma?

Ma Yun: My English name Jack was given by a lady from Tennessee. She traveled to Hangzhou and we became pen pals. The Chinese pronunciation of "Ma Yun" is really difficult.She said, do you have an English name?I said no.She said, my husband and father are both named Jack, what do you think of Jack?I said, good.I've used the name Jack for so many years.

Charlie Rose: First time to America in 1995?

Ma Yun: Yes, I helped our local government build an "information superhighway".

Charlie Rose: Did you use the Internet for the first time?

Jack Ma: Yes, in Seattle, at the Bank of America Tower.In that building, my friend had an office, and the computer was there.Friends said, Jack Ma, try the Internet.I said what the Internet is, and he said that you can search for everything you want on it.At that time, Mosaic[36] was used, which was very slow.I said I don't want to touch it, the computer is too expensive, I don't want to destroy it, and I can't afford it.He said, search it.

I searched for the first word, beer.I saw beer from America, beer from Japan, but no beer from China.I enter China, nothing, no information about China.So, I said to my friends, why not create something Chinese.After that, I made a small website for my translation agency.I remember that the website was launched at 9:40, and at 12:5, my friend said, someone sent you [-] emails.The email said, where are you?This is the first time we see a Chinese internet site, how can we get in touch with you and do something together?
I think, this is an interesting thing, we have to do something.

Why is it called Alibaba
Charlie Rose: Why Alibaba?

Ma Yun: The Internet belongs to the world, and we must have a global name. "Yahoo" is a good name.I thought for a long time whether "Alibaba" was a good name.I happened to be in San Francisco that day, a waiter came, and I asked her, do you know Alibaba?She said, yes, Sesame opens the door.I asked a lot of people, and they all know about Alibaba, Alibaba and the Forty Thieves, and Open Sesame.So I know, it's a great name.Moreover, Alibaba starts with A, implying that Alibaba is always the first.

Charlie Rose: You said that to create Alibaba, you must create trust, because the Chinese are only used to face-to-face.How do you create trust?
Jack Ma: In the beginning, everyone didn’t know each other online, so how do you do business?Rely on trust.For e-commerce, the most important thing is trust.The first time I went to the United States to raise funds, many venture capital institutions said, Ma Yun, no way, doing business in China depends on relationships, how can it be possible to use the Internet?I know that without a trust mechanism, without credit, this would not be possible.

What we have done every day for the past 14 years is to build trust mechanisms.People don't trust others, they always feel that others are lying.But because of e-commerce, we complete 6000 million transactions every day. I don't know you, but I take your package across the sea and mountains and send it to others.There are at least 6000 million trust-based transactions happening every day, so I'm proud of that.

CHARLIE ROSE: Did you do it with secured deals in the first place?
Ma Yun: At that time, this was a very important decision.In the first few years, Alibaba was just a big information platform, and everyone began to discuss why there was no payment system.I talked to the bank, but no bank is willing to do it.what should I do?If I do payment, it may be illegal, but if I don't do it, e-commerce will not develop.

Then I came to Davos and listened to a forum about leadership. Many politicians and entrepreneurs were discussing what responsibility is.

I listened to that forum, called my team and said, do it now, now!If I break the law because of this, I, Jack Ma, will take responsibility and go to jail.It is too important for China and the world to build a trust system.If I don't do well and the system is exploited to steal money, launder money, then I'll go to jail.Someone told me at the time that Alipay is the stupidest idea you have ever had.I said that as long as someone uses it, it is not stupid.Now, 6 million people are using Alipay.

That's what I love about Davos.

how is your relationship with the government

Charlie Rose: You never took money from the government?

Ma Yun: If you always think about getting money from the government, your company will be poor; if you think about getting money from the market and customers, your company will be successful.Not only did I not get money from the government, I didn't get money from the bank either.Then I wanted it and they didn't give it; now they give it to me and I don't want it.

Charlie Rose: What's your relationship with the government?Some people say that in the Chinese environment, competition is restricted?
Jack Ma: Our relationship with the government is very interesting.I used to do e-commerce for the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation, and I realized that government agencies cannot be relied on to do e-commerce.I told my team, only "love" the government, don't "marry" them, respect them.I think it's our responsibility to tell the government how the Internet can help people.For the first 12 years, any official came into my office and I sat down with them and told them how we were helping society and creating jobs.Because the Internet is new to all governments, if you convince a person, you have a chance.

If the government comes to me to do a project, I will introduce friends to do it.If the government wants me to do it, I will do it for the government for free.For example, during the Spring Festival every year, train tickets are too difficult to buy. Thousands of farmers work in cities. They need to buy train tickets when they go back to their hometowns, but the whole ticketing system is not easy to use.I told the young people in Ali that we are going to help them because this is helping millions of farmers go home.It's not about money, it's because so many people can buy train tickets on a snowy night, and they can buy them online with their mobile phones without waiting.

Charlie Rose: Back then Jerry Yang gave you 10 billion US dollars, which turned into a good investment for Yahoo. This was rare in those days, so much money was raised from abroad.

(End of this chapter)