warring states careerist

Chapter 149

Ren Ke really wanted to bring the debate back to the direction of "my ancestors described the Tao of Yao, Shun, Yu, Tang, Wen, and Wu".

So he said: "Even if your reasoning is reasonable, maybe thick burials and long funerals can really reduce the population, but this is after all the way of Yao, Shun, Yu, Tang, Wen, and Wu! Can you understand what the sage kings did?" Is everything for what?"

"A dull person sees a wise person drying reeds in summer, and only in winter will he know that the house is to be repaired. How do you know what the sage king did, so that you will understand it in the future? If you change it at will, you may be with you Like a dull person: they think that summer is hot and they can enjoy the cool air, but they should not dry the reeds.”

"However, by the time you understand it in winter, it will be too late. Therefore, unless you can explain the reasoning behind everything that Holy King Bai has done, I cannot accept your reasoning."

As soon as Ren Ke's words fell, there was a burst of laughter from the side.

He also immediately felt that there seemed to be something wrong with what he said, and as expected, he laughed and said: "First, are we discussing whether 'use for festivals and burials' is the truth of Yao, Shun and Yu Tang? Won't the population decline?"

"If you want to discuss whether 'use for festivals and burials' is the truth of Yao, Shun and Yu Tang, then please admit defeat on this issue, and someone from our Mohist school will discuss this new issue with you."

"I'm arguing with you about whether the cow is black or white, and you're arguing with me that horses run faster than cows...that's ridiculous."

After finishing speaking, Bian 54 stood up and saluted, "Mo Bian, please argue with you about the Way of the Holy King."

Ren Ke didn't answer, and said in his heart that it was difficult for me to deal with the youngest high-ranking Mohist figure, so why should I seek humiliation?

Originally thought this was a person who could deal with it, but unexpectedly, this person also got the essence of Mohist debate, which was unexpected.

When he was still thinking about the loopholes in what Shi said just now, Shi seized the opportunity to disrupt his rhythm while he was still thinking and hadn't found out, and said loudly: "Secondly, Yao and Shun Yutang, isn’t it for the benefit of the world? In the past, there was a Chao family who taught people to build houses to avoid wild beasts. Now, do those who want to be saints have to build houses? Or those who don’t build houses, can’t Is he called the Holy King?"

"In the past, Emperor Shun used Leisi to cultivate. Now people don't use Leisi but use new agricultural tools, so it is not following the way of the sage king?"

"Everything the sage king does is for the benefit of the world. Just like you eat to avoid starvation, you can eat rice, millet, or wheat. You have wheat but no rice in your hand, but you say that the sage king only eats rice , so you starve to death, then the Holy King will only think you are stupid, instead of admiring you for obeying the way of the Holy King."

"Abandoning the benefit of the world to pursue the behavior of the holy king is like abandoning jewels and leaving a jewel box. It is ridiculous."

"There are bird fields in Yuedi. In ancient times, when a dull person saw a bird flying, he only thought of catching it with a rope; but when Dayu saw a bird flying, he thought of using the bird to cultivate the field. Nowadays, a dull person because of Dayu He also knows how to use birds to plow the fields; but if Dayu is still alive, would he still choose to plow the fields?"

"On the contrary, if it is still alive today, Dayu would choose to catch it with ropes and plant two crops of rice instead to prevent it from being eaten by birds. Could it be said that Dayu used ropes to catch birds and Dayu became dull?"

"I heard a story like this. A man of Chu carried a sword across the river. When the sword fell into the water, he made a mark on the boat. People asked him why he didn't go to get it. He said that the sword fell from the mark. It’s fine to fish under the mark. Isn’t it just as stupid as this Chu man to pursue those who follow the original rules and think that they cannot be changed?”

The envoys of Chu on the side were a little reluctant to listen to this. At this time, the state of Chu was extremely powerful, and it was not the time when they just claimed to be barbarians and disobedient to Zhou, so people in the world rarely made fun of the state of Chu.

The joke Shi Shi told about cutting a boat and asking for a sword was originally a joke that only appeared after the Chu State was dying or dead. As far as the present is concerned... Generally speaking, the jokes are mainly about the two weak countries of Song and Wei, so as not to surprise the friendly countries.

However, the envoy of Chu was very satisfied with the Mozhe's attitude towards the Wei people, at least it proved that the Mozhe did not contact the Wei people on the initiative of the Jiahe incident.

From this point of view, maybe Wei Ren's thinking is similar to his own.

The envoy of Chu secretly felt lucky, and also felt that the king of Chu had a good vision, otherwise the Wei people would be quick, and the situation would be very bad in the future.

The king of Chu said that it was Qu Wuchen who taught Che Zhan in Wu and Wu Zixu to build Gusu.Originally, the envoy of Chu didn't necessarily care about it, but now after seeing it in Peixian County, he already believes that the King of Chu has a sharp and unique vision, and it really is.

Seeing that the Wei envoy seemed to be persuaded by the young Mohist, the Chu envoy also understood that the fear of the Mohist collectively becoming an official in one country can be dispelled, and the rest is based on the fact that it is impossible for all the Mohist to become an official in one country. It is possible to get some things that are beneficial to Chu people.

Mozi in the arena admired Shi's performance quite a lot, and Mozi nodded frequently, knowing that what Shi said was completely in line with Mozi's usual principles, but... on the issue of where the reason comes from, Mozi can clearly perceive to make the appropriate corrections.

Mohists talk about reasoning, but also respect ghosts and gods, so there is often a strange phenomenon: after explaining the reasoning, they make up a story, saying that the sage kings also do the same, and ghosts and gods like it.

At this time in the world, the holy king is the best standard, and any theory must find a way to rely on the holy king.

But when talking about these things, he has always avoided taboos about how the Holy King will do it, but only focuses on one point: the Holy King is for the benefit of the world.

As for the way to do it, it cannot be tested and it is not difficult for all ages. As long as it can benefit the world, it is the way of a holy king.Conversely, actually being able to benefit the world is the only and best criterion.

If you have time, just make up a story about the holy king. Anyway, in the era of knowledge monopoly, people with knowledge like hundreds of schools are making up random things-a simple republic of the people of the country has four or five theories, all of which are aimed at themselves. Lean on.

Basically, the various schools of thought are considered to be the first batch of "historical inventors" who relied on inventing history to demonstrate their own theories.

Because in such an era of change, it is difficult to use the old history directly before discovering the hidden laws, so we have to fabricate some ancient and untestable stories to prove our rationality.

The appropriateness is to directly skip the step of compiling history, and use the tampered "will of heaven" to benefit the world as the highest standard.

Whether it can benefit the world has nothing to do with whether the sage king has done it, but only with the inferred results.

This is the biggest difference from other Mozi when they debate with others, and this is also an important reason why Mozi chose to be the radical of Xuanyi.

The opponent can refute that the Holy King did not do this, but he cannot refute that the Holy King is not for the benefit of the world.And benefiting the world according to the principles after the fusion of ink and fitness, it seems difficult to lose.

Today's Ren Ke is the first time to experience this integrated Mohist debate style, and he is extremely uncomfortable, and it is extremely difficult to refute it with his quick wit.

It feels like facing a high mountain, trying to collapse this high mountain with your own quick wit, but this high mountain seems to be the world of "the world is called the universe, and the ancient and modern are called the universe", simple, vulgar and heavy to bear.

On this high mountain, some people need to eat if they don’t starve to death, and their parents need to have sex before they are born, etc. The truth is so simple that it is as heavy as the world.

Seeing that Ren Ke was still pondering, he immediately continued his previous discussion: "From this point of view, the existing rules of the world, such as heavy burial and long funeral, are harmful to the world, at least in terms of population increase. Then Can it make the people rich, and can the government be governed?"

"A long funeral is in the home of a prince or lord who has a funeral. The coffin must be multi-layered, the burial must be deep, the clothes of the deceased must be many, the burial must be rich in embroidery, and the tomb must be tall. When the princes die, the treasury must store wealth. After emptying it, decorate the body of the dead with gold, jade and jewelry, tie it with a silk belt, and bury the chariots and horses in the cave, and make a lot of curtains, bells, drums, feasts, wine pots , mirrors, daggers, swords, feathers, ivory, and leather were placed in the chamber of the deceased and buried before they were satisfied. As for the burial, the number of burials killed by the emperor and princes after their death ranged from hundreds to tens; The number of martyrs killed by generals and doctors after their death ranged from dozens to just a few."

"In mourning, you have to be supported to get up, and you can only walk with a cane. Live this way for three years."

"If farmers follow this, they will not be able to go out early and return late to cultivate; if craftsmen follow this, they will not be able to build boats, carts, or make utensils; if women follow this, they will not be able to get up early and go to bed late. To spin and weave linen."

"The property that has been formed is buried in the coffin; the things that should be produced after the mourning do not appear because of the mourning. This is a kind of reduction."

"So, from the point of view that the increase in wealth is beneficial to the world, the existing rules are also harmful to the world, while the rules of the Mohist are beneficial to the world."

After listening to Shi Shi's argument, Ren Ke actually knew that he had lost. This kind of reasoning is hard to refute.

But he felt that he had grasped the loopholes in Shi's language keenly, and said anxiously: "Your words may make sense, but don't you feel that this is contrary to Mohist's existing principles?"

"I heard that the Mohists do not regard curtains, bells, tripods, drums, feasts, jugs, mirrors, pearls and jade as treasures or wealth. Then according to the Mohist's definition of treasures, what is buried is not a treasure, so wealth does not Reduce. For example, the Mohist is not happy, so when the princes and nobles are buried, the musical instrument bells and tripods are buried together. Isn’t this in line with the Mohist’s idea? If you think the bells and tripods are wealth, why should they be non-music? ?”

Standing up, he said with a kind of pride unique to this time: "I thought you must be a smart person when you were sent by Weihou. Now it seems that you are so stupid that you can't distinguish wealth from treasures. It is already difficult for me to talk to you exchanged."

Ren Ke's face darkened, but he had no choice but to say, "Ask for advice."

"In the old days, it was rare to receive jade from others, but he regarded righteousness as his treasure; in the meeting of the king of Chu Zhuang, he did not hesitate to belittle Meiji, and he did not treasure the valuable Meiji, but he took people's hearts as his treasure... In everyone's eyes Treasures are different, but wealth is definable."

"The product of all people's labor is wealth. Isn't Zhongding a product of human labor? If it is, then of course it is wealth."

"For the wealth of the world, you only need to calculate the total number of things that have condensed labor in the world, and you can know whether the wealth has increased or decreased."

"Gold is more valuable than copper, but it is only because smelting gold requires more labor than smelting copper. Labor, like rice grains in a bowl of rice, produces wealth and measures wealth. Please give me an example that does not require Labor is a thing of wealth."

Ren Ke laughed loudly and said, "Miao Yi! The land has been opened for thousands of miles, and the land is wealth. But there is no human labor."

Shifan asked: "The land has existed since the beginning of the sky, and there is no wealth without people. In the past, nothing was planted on a piece of land, only grass; a few years ago, people planted one season a year; now Pei County plants two crops a year. .So is labor producing wealth? Or is land producing wealth?"

Ren Ke seemed to understand a little bit, but he still asked: "Don't the king open up thousands of miles, doesn't it increase wealth?"

Shi laughed and said: "The sea is boundless, why don't you see the king using it as wealth? Thousands of miles to the north, there are no people inhabited, is the wealth of Yan the most? The king has opened thousands of miles, and the wealth has indeed increased, but this wealth is The people on the land of thousands of miles created it. Besides, the land belongs to the working people in the world. Why should the king claim that what belongs to him is his? The working people use the land to produce food, but if there is no human labor, the land is the land Is the land that has been reclaimed for several years the same as the wasteland?"

"The king said that the land is his, so people who live on the land have to pay taxes, so is the king's wealth a tax or land? The king just deprived the people of the right to cultivate the land, but gave the people to collect their taxes. Fu... It's like I robbed all your money and gave you ten more, but you have to thank me."

"The king's wealth is not the land, but the taxes and labor that can be collected from the land. If the king of Chu is willing to give the land of Chu to the Marquis of Wei, but he does not allow the Marquis of Wei to collect taxes, conscripts, etc. Power simply gave him land, so is this wealth?"

It is not dangerous to say these words that would be beheaded during the Ming and Qing Dynasties in later generations. Ren Ke even felt that there was some truth, and he was not surprised.People like Yang Zhu, Mo Di, and Zhong Ni spit all day long, scolding all the princes and nobles who are either bastards or scum, and the king can't control them at this time.

Shi shouted loudly: "Don't you understand? If you still need me to continue to explain clearly the impact of heavy burial and long funeral on political affairs?"

Ren Ke thought about it for a long time, but he was given a slap in the face. Knowing that it would be pointless to argue any further, he could only bow down and say, "I understand your reasoning, and I know your reasoning is right."

He got up, bowed to the other Mohists and Mo Di again, and said, "I have heard a lot of the Mohism's truths, but I think your truths may be right, but they cannot be practiced in the world."

"If you are right, do you have to do it? Take me for example. Your reasoning convinced me, but Marquis Wei promised me a daughter, a good horse, a beautiful girl, and pearls... Although I think your reasoning is right, I can't Abandon those thousands of gold jewels, so even if the reason is right, it is useless. Mr. Mo Di, you have been doing righteousness for decades, but there are only hundreds of Mohists around you. Is it because your reasoning is wrong? If the reasoning is right, then you can do it In the world, how can there be only hundreds of people around you?"

"So, please consider that the only way for Mohists to enter the Wei Dynasty and become an official is the only way for you to benefit the world. Your reasoning is correct, and your rules can also benefit the world, but if the current rules do not change, the world will remain unchanged. Change, not change the rules but use skills, this is still beneficial to the world after all.”

Just when Shi was about to refute, Mozi laughed loudly, restrained his usual dialect, and said in extremely pure common language: "Shi just said that the current rules are harming the world, how can you say that it is not right?" Add or subtract?"

"Without a mill, wheat is cheap food. Without wheat, a mill is of little use. Both are necessary."

"The righteousness and government of the Mohists are in line with the will of heaven, and also in line with the world after the emergence of these new things and techniques. Now that the boat is moving forward, you have drawn a mark on the boat. Isn't it ridiculous?"

"Another example is the planting of wheat. The original martial arts performance in winter will be abolished. This is something that even kings who are fond of unjust wars have to consider. Is it okay to use the old rules?"

"The righteousness of the Mohists is the righteousness that is in line with the forward, and it is the only one that can be in line with the governance after the emergence of things such as grass and silk and cattle farming."

"If you don't use the righteousness of the Mohist, the Mohist will not become an official collectively. Since you are envoys, let me ask, can Xiong Dang and Weiss use the righteousness of the Mohist?"

(End of this chapter)